In a special interview with cryptonews.com, Marina Guryeva, speaks about Scaling ETH on Solana blockchain, revoking the Solana "Ethereum killer" thesis, and FTX's relationship with Solana.
About Marina Guryeva
Marina Guryeva is the Founder and CEO of Neon Labs and the designer behind Neon EVM, the entrance for Ethereum-based applications to access the scalability and liquidity of Solana without altering its codebase. Actively associated with the blockchain area because 2015, she was the Director of CyberFund, a platform that bought blockchain start-ups. She signed up with Commun, a blockchain-based social media network, as Director in 2019 to spearhead blockchain-based social networking run by self-governed neighborhoods. In 2021, Marina established Neon Labs to bring Solana's scalability and low deal expenses to the Ethereum community.
Marina Guryeva offered an extensive unique interview which you can see below, and we enjoy for you to utilize it for publication offered there is a credit to www.cryptonews.com.
Emphasizes Of The Interview
- Revoking the Solana "Ethereum killer" thesis
- Attending to Ethereum's notorious high gas charges and low throughput
- Making it possible for gain access to for Ethereum dApps to a brand-new market with very little friction
- FTX relationship with Solana - how that will impact the community in the future
- Strength vs. Rust - advantages and disadvantages of each program
Complete Transcript Of The Interview
Matt Zahab
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Cryptonews Podcast. We're buzzin as constantly, and today we have Marina Guryeva on the program. She's the creator and CEO of Neon Labs, the designer behind Neon EVM, the entrance for Ethereum-based applications to access the scalability and liquidity of the Solana Blockchain without altering its code base. She is actively associated with the Blockchain Space and has actually been considering that 2015, where she was the director of CyberFund, a platform that purchased Blockchain start-ups. She likewise signed up with Commun, a Blockchain-based social media network as a director in 2019 to spearhead Blockchain-based social networking run by self-govern neighborhoods. In 2021 Marina established Neon Labs to bring Solana's scalability and low deal expenses to the Ethereum environment. Without more ado, I'm extremely delighted to invite Marina Guryeva to the Cryptonews Podcast and Marina welcome to the program my buddy.
Marina Guryeva
Hi, everyone. It's an enjoyment to be here.
Matt Zahab
Pumped to have you on, I like your smile, to generate great vibes to the program. We enjoy to see it. You and the group have actually had rather the journey and have actually developed something really unbelievable. Something that a great deal of our listeners connected, I got a number of DM's when I sort of let individuals understand that you were beginning the program. And they were inquiring about the effect of the entire FTX relationship with Solana as certainly you men are developing on Solana, I understand this concern is most likely getting a little redundant for you. I require to hear it from somebody who understands their Solana is shit. Which is yourself. How does that effect community? How is it affecting you people will Solana still be around in the future? Inform us whatever you understand about this.
Marina Guryeva
Okay. Simply we're extremely grateful that we're not impacted by this thing, cuz Alameda they didn't invest in us. Therefore and we didn't offer any funds on FTX. Then we now understand, a lot of jobs that are impacted by FTX crash, and then some of them will go through hard times, since like they utilized to keep their funds on FTX trigger Alameda they invested in them, and it was the declaration within the contract that they have to keep the funds on FTX. However ideally, we will go through these hard durations and the community will grow more powerful. Due to these crash generally what we anticipate everyone who is not efficient in structure and doing and going through the difficulties to disappear and those who can like conquering difficulties, they will state, and we remained in talks with lots of groups, so they simply do some optimizations within the groups, however they wish to remain and they wish to develop and they wish to go even more. I hope that the most the finest tasks will remain.
Matt Zahab
Solana progressing, though is should we have anything to fret about? You understand, like, I understand, they had an insane collaboration with FTX was moneying an enormous piece of Solana FTX, likewise induced a lot of investor to money this Solana community. Once again, I'm not a Solana specialist, I hold an extremely little bag of SOL. I'm simply curious to comprehend what's going to take place in the future.
Marina Guryeva
Yes, they have extremely strong collaboration with FTX however Alameda and FTX they will not disown financiers into Solana and essentially they have a number of all the substantial financiers that are capable of like continue supporting them. And as far as I understand, they simply they desire Solana to remain and everyone who is constructing on Solana today or desire Solana and to remain and so on they certainly will have less cash than what they utilized to have. And they will simply invest less however then will invest carefully, I think. It's like, they're still capable of investing an entire lot.
Matt Zahab
That and no. And once again, we 'd enjoy to see that certainly, as somebody in the Space and I believe I speak on behalf of everybody here, I do not believe anybody wishes to see somebody stop working unless you have an insane brief a leveraged brief on them. We had actually all love to see them bump. Prior to we enter Neon, I 'd like if you might provide simply a fast explainer on why a great deal of designers and developers and creators contractors did select and continue to select to develop on Solana and Rust versus Ethereum and Solidity. I understand, there's the traditional, you understand, it's a lot more affordable, a lot quicker, so on etc. I 'd like you might talk about sort of Solana scalability, you understand, the low deal expenses and the other pros that the Solana community has.
Marina Guryeva
For me, it's not about like expenses or throughput. It's more about user experience, since we utilized to construct a social media network based upon Blockchain. Therefore I can like, compare user experience on Ethereum, for instance, and Ethereum-based chains with the user experience on other chains. And they understand for that for the applications like social media networks or like video games. You have to like to select the chain that ultimately will provide the users the exact same quality that they have on simply on Web2. Therefore in Solana is best for that. It's when you desire to develop something that like typical public basic public will begin utilizing one day, you desire to supply them the user experience comparable to Web2. Therefore you need to select in between non-Ethereum based Blockchains due to the fact that sadly, however user experience on the Ethereum is still not comparable to Web2 experience.
Matt Zahab
Intriguing. I, how would you explain sort of you discussed the, the functionality and sort of the, you understand, the user experience? How, and my apologies, because once again, this is certainly a hard concern. Like, how do you? How could you discuss the distinction in between Solana and ETH in concerns to user experience, aren't they, when they be quite comparable?
Marina Guryeva
No, absolutely. You simply have to begin utilizing any application that like, as discussed, in your social networks, for example, when you begin utilizing anything comparable to social networks on Ethereum, like you will get a lot of hold-ups, and you will be not able to get the action comparable to what you have on Twitter, for example, on Solana, you will get like the comparable experiences on Twitter. It's like you're simply typing and then utilize your sending out and then you unexpectedly have the like, the your message popping up on your screen. And with Ethereum you need to wait a bit. And something may occur, however it like not as quickly as on Solana, not as quickly as on the Web2 on the screen.
Matt Zahab
It's an excellent point. Another thing that's actually fascinating is Solana is sort of thesis, which a lot of individuals have created to be the Ethereum killer? Everybody was available in and resembled, oh, Solana will change or is more effective than Ethereum. Clearly, that, in some capability, it's been shown to be real, and others it hasn't. One of the things that I enjoy about what you people do at Neon, and more particularly, the Neon EVM is you showed that Ethereum and Solana can be sort of complementary environments, which is, you understand, everybody constantly talks about interoperability and how crucial it is. And you men are truly putting foot forward and dealing with this. Just what is sort of the Neon EVM? And how does it assist Solana and Ethereum be complementary communities.
Marina Guryeva
For me personally, I do not like these Ethereum killer thing, cuz, like, Ethereum was my puppy love. I still keep in mind how I check out the white and yellow documents of the company in 2014. And I was really pleased by what I check out. And I still think Ethereum did a lot for the Blockchain environment. However then, as discussed currently so I utilized to develop like the items that ought to be utilized by basic public and so I understand the methods of Ethereum in terms of like, when you require to construct an app, which will be like utilized by the basic public, with the comparable speed and whatever, then you simply can't. In Solana is fantastic since it offers the technical abilities of developing the apps that can be utilized by basic public. And I think that our primary objective for everyone, who is right now within the Crypto Space is to draw in public into the Crypto Space. It simply, we like, the genuine like, I do not understand, however I'm the 1 million I think, active users within the Crypto right now. We have like to alert others. And for that we require like to develop applications on top of the procedures that then permit us to develop something equivalent to Web2 applications. And this is why I like Solana, due to the fact that the tech is terrific. The tech actually permits contractors on us to construct something on top of a that will like ultimately let users delight in the speeds and the quality of interaction comparable to Web2. In terms of Neon, we were constructing the option for Ethereum Dapps to come to Solana to release their agreements without any modifications on Solana. And like to use Solana market with the applications that currently like, delight in success on other Ethereum-base chains is so and this is for us, like an obstacle and a chance and this is for the applications a substantial chance due to the fact that they're taking advantage of a brand-new market Solana market, which is various from Ethereum based market. And they simply, it's their method, they normally, like go on each and every EVM suitable platform due to the fact that they wish to use the brand-new market. Everyone's like, is about more users.
Matt Zahab
With that, would that sort of resemble your ethical compass and your sort of business objective is to simply onboard as lots of users as possible to Crypto, that's what it seems like.
Marina Guryeva
Yep, honestly, yes. For me it's like the single with GAO that like I wish to accomplish by developing anything on top of any Blockchains are is to draw in more users to yearn for cuz like, otherwise, we're simply it's a good thing to play and it's great thing to construct something with interest however like without genuine users can be found in millions in like billions we will like remain here with like, not many people taking pleasure in some good things, however it's not about huge markets. It's not about adoption.
Matt Zahab
See, it's difficult. It's such a difficult sort of objective. Once again, it's excellent objectives they should not be broad and simple they ought to be you understand, particular and hard. Which's precisely what yours is. You wish to onboard you understand, countless individuals to Web3. Have you and the group discovered it hard over the last number of weeks to keep grinding and developing with all the, you understand, all the chaos and the FTX shitshow. And now Genesis and digital currency group with Barry Silbert, and everybody else if you discover it tough at all, or is it still simply head down structure shipping structure shipping?
Marina Guryeva
It's my 3rd bear market to inform you honestly, so it's like, all right.
Matt Zahab
You've remained in 3 crucial bearishness?
Marina Guryeva
Yeah. It's like alright, since for the 3rd times, you sort of accustomed to what is occurring and like you anticipate it to take place so it's like actually it varies like in some my small scenes, however then it's a bear market. Okay. Right now we have like, I do keep in mind how Mt. Gox crashed in 2014. It's like, no, we have FTX crash, all right. Primarily, a lot of groups still have funds and they have like, skilled engineers and they are capable of like structure and forming so throughout the bear market, you have to foreclose and you have to construct and you have to deliver and you have to onboard users and evaluate your item and discover Product-Market Fit in order to be prepared for the next bull market.
Matt Zahab
I can't think you've been through 3. That's insane. Can you inform this one was gon na occur? Like existed any inform tales where you resembled, Oh, this is you understand.
Marina Guryeva
Throughout Mt. Gox crashed, we lost some funds due to the fact that we kept them on cash gags and it resembled the worst bearishness I had actually ever experienced since we were not that wise to like to diversify. And this was actually like something when we combated. Okay. Bitcoin is down. Crypto has an extremely bad track record. What will follow and after that unexpectedly Ethereum came therefore and it resembled, Okay, it's not that bad. You constantly like in the bear market possibly you're simply waiting for something excellent to occur. And it constantly takes place.
Matt Zahab
Well stated. Extremely well stated Marina, we're gon na take a fast break. Got ta provide a substantial shout out to our sponsor the program which is PrimeXBT, huge shout out to PrimeXBT been utilizing them for a hot minute, as they provide a robust trading system for both newbies and expert traders. Does not matter if you're a novice or a veterinarian, you can quickly create and tailor your design and widgets to finest fit your trading design. They are likewise providing Cryptonews Podcast listeners a sweet promotion code, you get 50% of your deposit that is 5 no percent, 50% of your deposit credited to your trading account. That's a great fat little reward waiting on you. And once again, the promotion code is CRYPTONEWS50that's CRYPTONEWS50, all one word to get 50% of your deposit credited to your trading account. And now back to the program with Marina. Another thing that I discover extremely intriguing with this entire Solana versus Ethereum is the various occasions that are tossed. Now I understand you and the group are at Solana breakpoint in Lisbon. I do not understand how I feel about these occasions, the only sort of Blockchain particular occasions I've been to is Bitcoin, the you understand, the Bitcoin Miami the sort of the most popular one, which is a good time. How do you feel about these Blockchain particular occasions like, you understand, Solana breakpoint and Lisbon or ETH Denver? Or, you understand, what remained in Colombia a number of weeks ago? Was it Adam or something? Anyways? How do you feel about these? Like, I seem like they're cool, however at the very same time, like, is it truly working that much? Like, is it simply a lot of Blockchain Devs hacking away and a hackathon? Like what's your take on these market particular occasions?
Marina Guryeva
Right now, we like to attempt to take part in Ethereum occasions and in Solana occasions, since like, we require Ethereum designers and we have to provide our item to utilize their own designers at the very same time, we are more than pleased to talk about what we did at Solana occasions. To my mind, these 2 like Ethereum and Solana occasions, they vary from each other like, and it's more about.
Matt Zahab
How so? How do they vary?
Marina Guryeva
Yeah, it does. Yeah. I would state that it is still in need particularly some of them are still extremely neighborhood driven. They're not done by Ethereum structure. They are done by regional neighborhoods, like in Amsterdam, for example, or in Paris. Therefore it can be compared however it's not similar to something that is done by Solana structure due to the fact that thus breakpoint occasion is done by Solana structure. It's a substantial conference comparable to any huge Web2 conferences like and this time in Lisbon. I was satisfied since like it pertained to my mind that it advises Apple conferences, like how they revealed all the items that they dealing with our like Solana shops that resemble Apple shops, or Solana smart devices that resemble with the depth shops on them, which resemble Apple iPhones with the app shops on them. And it was like extremely comparable to something whatever that is. And absolutely, it's not like it varies from Ethereum conferences, Ethereum occasions and so due to the fact that like they're more decentralized in a method how they arrange. Then there are pluses and to vote for these like throughout Ethereum occasions, it's simple like to talk to individuals to get involved in some occasions like, to have meetups or something else like and it's simple to discover the best individuals. Everybody resembles, is put in a really little area. Where's this Solana and you have like, 3 various like phases like distributed throughout Lisbon. And the like, the one for construct this one for the primary statements other for future concepts and so on and do have like, to go in between them in order like to discover individuals tend to talk to individuals, so it varies, however still, it's great. I like conferences, and particularly after COVID I enjoy them a lot. Due to the fact that like individual connection is the very best connection. Like you'll never ever have the exact same experience through Zoom conferences, like never ever. You satisfy the individual, you begin talking, you talk about things and unexpectedly you're simply, you understand, hear her and you can like, move forward and you can like interact a lot more quickly. And it's like extremely great. And you can like go over a great deal of things like when you're standing like near to each other, you can talk for hours and like go over each and every single thing that you wish to talk about so I enjoy them.
Matt Zahab
I can inform you it fired up about him I'm I 'd state I'm most likely more of an introvert at heart. After you understand, at the conference, I certainly require a little alone time to charge. There are a lot of enjoyable. It's undoubtedly great time specifically when you and everybody there typically has the exact same favorable intention and desires to see great for the Space, desires to see development, individuals piddling things, you like to see it, it's normally a great thing.
Marina Guryeva
It's likewise about discovering due to the fact that like throughout these conferences like I enjoy to go to various workshops and advancement workshops. Since like, you find out a lot due to the fact that it whether you're sitting there and listening, and you see and you can you have a chance to speak with the people who exist later on. It's like, fine, I'm one and this and that and it's like throughout the single day can find out much more. Like throughout a number of weeks or months however it's an unique enjoyment of mine to go and like take part in these workshops.
Matt Zahab
It is ya understand, it's genuinely a reward. I frequently get asked what is more difficult to discover Solidity or Rust. What do you believe the response is?
Marina Guryeva
Rust.
Matt Zahab
Rust is more difficult than Solidity?
Marina Guryeva
Yeah, for sure. Due to the fact that you like it's not my individual viewpoint, though I'm engineer by education. It's the viewpoint of our engineers. And they're really senior engineers, they understand a great deal of languages. And they understand a great deal of structures. Throughout the working with procedure, we have to evaluate the prospects and Rust designers are more difficult to discover like, absolutely, in terms of Solidity, practically anyone like can end up being a Solidity designer. And like in regards to Rust, however, not everyone can end up being a Rust advancement.
Matt Zahab
What makes it a lot harder, and once again, attempt to discuss it to somebody like me, who has an extremely little technical background. Therefore attempt not to utilize any, like intricate lingo, due to the fact that it would simply go right over my head. Like how does it make it a lot more difficult?
Marina Guryeva
Yeah, however Solidity resembles Java in the sense, and it's like easier. You can like it's actually easier. And after that and you do not require to find out a lot. You do not require to comprehend some structures extra in regards to like you can not understand a lot you can like comprehend extremely standard in regards to how like to code, and after that you begin developing and after that you can likewise discover a great deal of code composed in Solidity on GitHub, and you will now how like the designers straight like, nowadays, they simply go. And like Google and discover like the appropriate cloud comparable to what they require on GitHub, then they check out and after that they make modifications. Therefore in regards to Solidity, it's like, thing to do, in regards to Rust, initially you need to comprehend like, what challenging structures, then Java, and after that you will not discover a great deal of code for us on GitHub. It's actually about your abilities of like being an engineer more than a developer. If you comprehend what I indicate, so engineers, they have like, not to program just, however they have to believe about algorithms, and perhaps even mathematically, so they initially to have these structures in their heads, and then like, later on, just begin composing something due to the fact that they have to believe about how to enhance the code like how to code in the easiest method possible. This is what is hard and this is what distinguishes an excellent engineer from an excellent program.
Matt Zahab
And this is where Neon EVM enters into play. Since you are allowing Solana and ETH to interact. By doing this, I presume you can onboard a lot more Dev's due to the fact that you can simply utilize Solidity Dev's, right?
Marina Guryeva
Correct. Yes. Essentially, anyone who has any Solidity Dev can come and release on yarn with no modifications to the cloud base.
Matt Zahab
Cool. What's on the program for the next sort of, you understand, a number of months and proceeding to Q2, 3 and 4 of 2023. What does Neon have on the backburner today?
Marina Guryeva
Initially, we will do minute launch in December will introduce share EVM itself on Solana primary web. It's still on Solana Dev Net. We we've been evaluating it given that April and we've been checking it off in order like to guarantee that any single significant that Ethereum Dev can be released quickly without code modifications, utilizing the basic Ethereum tools, so then moving forward for the next year, our primary objective will be to construct the service that will make it possible for the interoperability in between Dapps released on Neon EVM and Solana Dapps essentially what I'm speaking about is I'm speaking about like typical release the Neon EVM calling any Solana Dapp and vice versa. It's like something that we desire to have and that will simply improve the community since like in this method Ethereum Dapps released and Yaniv down will have the chance like to interact with any Solana Dapps, and it sounds like it will be a huge one community readily available for users.
Matt Zahab
That's so cool.
Marina Guryeva
It's extremely challenging. Yeah, it sounds simple, however it's technically hard. The architecture of Solana, that's really tough.
Matt Zahab
And you men are introducing or intend on releasing December 12.?
Marina Guryeva
Yup. Correct. Yeah.
Matt Zahab
Exists any factor for that is a little 12 12 action example? Exists any great day to release?
Marina Guryeva
Yeah it's a great theory.
Matt Zahab
Is it an excellent day to introduce?
Marina Guryeva
Yes, it's an excellent 12 12 2022.
Matt Zahab
Stroll me through a routine day in Marina's life when prior to we went live, you were informing me that you remained in France today. And now you're in you understand, Estonia, what resembles what does a routine day appear like for you? Do you have any, you understand, high carrying out routines or practices that permit you to be a high carrying out person like simply strolling through the day practices that you eagerly anticipate anything other like.
Marina Guryeva
In regards to my individual practices, I do practice meditation each early morning and I do yoga each early morning. Generally, I begin my day by practicing meditation and doing yoga workouts. And after that we have everyday preparation in the early morning and after that whatever else goes later on so and this is what I do routinely since otherwise, it's a great deal of tension today and not just in Crypto Space, however in basic. The world got going like insane. Therefore I simply require to remain like completely.
Matt Zahab
Rounded and sane.
Marina Guryeva
Yeah. Correct.
Matt Zahab
Love that. How are you so delighted even smiling? We've been taping for what you understand 33 minutes and you've been smiling the entire time like what do you do to remain so positive and pleased?
Marina Guryeva
Yeah, however like firstly, I'm extremely pleased that we ultimately satisfied since it's about time and after that like it's an enjoyment speaking with you and we're going over really I enjoyed Crypto Space and I enjoy individuals within Crypto Space due to the fact that they're not regular, however in a common sense.
Matt Zahab
We're all a bit off a rocker 100%.
Marina Guryeva
It's how I'm actually taken pleasure in speaking with the men I simply enjoy to find out to share my concepts and to discuss their concepts. It's like for me it's genuine enjoyment to talk to you right now.
Matt Zahab
I enjoy that that's uh, I value the kind words I understand we're getting a little tight here. We constantly do a section on the program called the hot take factory, we leap in and our visitor offers a number of hot takes does not need to be crypto associated, can be food politics, if you wish to get very spicy, location sports you call it anything, what are a couple Marina hot takes that just you think in that most other individuals do not.
Marina Guryeva
The majority of people do not?
Matt Zahab
Like a hot take for example.
Marina Guryeva
Can you offer an example from your side?
Matt Zahab
Yeah 100% I believe that all societies must be sauning 4 to 5 times a week. I believe it needs to be compulsory. I believe that would minimize you understand, I believe that if I was the ruler of a nation ruler if I was Prime Minister, President, Dictator whatever you wish to call it I most likely would not let individuals consume breakfast unless you require to take tablets very first thing in the early morning to not ruin your stomach liner otherwise I would make obligatory periodic fasting, you understand I would make necessary hour daily strolls outdoors or an hour physical motion, 3 to 7 times a week 20 minutes, sauna followed by 5 minutes, I shower and the billions of dollars that would conserve the health care system I believe would pay dividends that's a quite hot take. I believe joy is an option I understand that's another hot take too I get shit on all the time when I state that however even when you're extremely you understand upset or unfortunate or whatever the case might be you can you understand you can inform yourself a joke or view an amusing YouTube video and choose to be pleased so there's 2 ones for you.
Marina Guryeva
Okay, so then from my side I would be happy individuals practice meditation each and every day due to the fact that like everyone actually everyone to like.
Matt Zahab
Great for you.
Marina Guryeva
To alter your world a bit however rapidly and after that I would likewise turn off all the television sets around the world permanently and ever because.
Matt Zahab
You would prohibit television begun.
Marina Guryeva
Yeah and after that yeah I'm even if like they simply individuals are persuaded by those programs.
Matt Zahab
That's the appearance I concur with perhaps turn off traditional news since 99% of it is outright shit however, like what about sports like the World Cup this is fantastic for the world. This is fantastic it brings nations together I'm in Canada we have it we're playing a video game and you understand what in 20 minutes and all I do not have one pal who's not seeing this video game we do not care about football/soccer we do not provide a shit about it here in Canada however everybody's viewing it, it's simply a bring begun you can't state no television, TVs excellent.
Marina Guryeva
Okay, let's state news.
Matt Zahab
Yeah traditional news is garbage. I concur however television as an entire I believe sports is excellent. I believe truth television like the.
Marina Guryeva
It depends. Truth TVs not often it's like it's truly bad for individuals's health. Sorry fans.
Matt Zahab
No. And all those like programs like The Bachelor, Love Island all that things. It was absolutely nothing helpful for society. Okay. Any other hot takes? And any other hot takes you got?
Marina Guryeva
Yeah, it's enough.
Matt Zahab
I enjoy it. Great to understand. I have a lot of too. I might actually begin a podcast called the Hot Take Factory however I digress. Marina thank you a lot for beginning. What a reward. Actually enjoyed this one and would like to have you on for round 2. After you men go reside in I wish to state when this episode airs about 10 days so about a week or 2 weeks after, however it was it was genuinely a satisfaction having you and I'm extremely grateful for your time prior to you go can you please let our listeners understand where they can discover you and Neon online and on socials?
Marina Guryeva
Yeah, absolutely. It's extremely simple to discover us, it's neonlabs.org as well so and from the primary website you go to our paperwork, to our Discord, to our Twitter whatever is there and like its sign name you have to keep in mind in your way of life doc.
Matt Zahab
Incredible, we'll consist of those in the program keeps in mind as constantly Marina thanks once again. What a reward and wanting you and the group all the very best and all the best with the launch on the 12th
Marina Guryeva
Thank you quite certainly it was enjoyment. Excellent to and pleased to speak with you.
Matt Zahab
Thanks Marina. Folks what an episode, Marina was dropping understanding bombs left ideal and center and taught us a lot about ETH, Solana and how they can collaborate. If you enjoyed this episode and I hope you did please do subscribe it would suggest the world to my group and I, mentioning the group love you people and the listeners you the GOAT. Continue growing those bags and continue remaining healthy, rich and delighted. Bye in the meantime. We'll talk quickly.
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